Showing posts with label RZ67. Show all posts
Showing posts with label RZ67. Show all posts

Field comparison: medium format VS a modern full frame DSLR and premium prime lens.

Sometime ago a wild flicker user challenged me that any full frame SLR can do what a medium format (MF) film camera can do. He made that claim on a very specific kind of portraits, similar to the ones I'll use here. Challenge accepted! I decided to shoot where I previously shot a Mamiya RZ67 in the same conditions, and do a similar picture, same light etc. Here are the competitors:

In both cases, I'll shoot the same portrait, window light later afternoon, on a heavy duty Manfrotto tripod, at maximum aperture for each lens, with a speed of 1/25s. For the record, 110mm on medium format is about 50mm in 35mm format. The depth of field on medium format at f2.8 is about the same as 35mm format at f1.2. Only difference is the model and the day, but it's as close as it can get. Here are my conclusions:

Focus: Medium Format wins

Manual focusing with MF cameras allows a lot more precision: the viewfinder is huge, and you can zoom on it in most camera with a magnifier. The focusing wheel can has a little gear box to allow super precise adjustments. On the D600 in particular focus points are way too squeezed in the center, preventing me from good off center focus. So for parity purposes, I focused on the middle of the screen and off centered. At f1.2, even with camera assistance it is soft, and it is very very hard to be spot on focus. It works a lot better at f2.8 but then you completely loose the bokeh and lack of depth the MF system gives you at f2.8. For precision manual work, no doubt MF rocks. Even with auto focus, the D600 struggles to focus even in the center: it does work, but if you aim at something as small as eyelashes, it doesn't get it.

Sharpness: Medium Format wins

Sharpness is a pixel peeper criteria: it doesn't matter much, what matters is the sharpest part of the picture is where you need it to be. Yet, it creates an impression of crispness that is nice...and it's an easy win for the MF camera. On a computer screen, where doesn't matter so much, it shows a little. On an A3 print, it's night and day: it's crisp as hell wide open at 1/20s on the MF system, while it take 180% sharpening in photoshop on the D600 (1/80s, ISO 400) to get something remotely comparable. On a very large print, the perceive gap in sharpness -how sharp the focused area looks compare to the rest of the image- between the MF and DSLR  is very much in favor of the MF system. Once again in perfect lightning conditions, it's going to be similar, but on the edges of digital system's capacity, MF  cameras destroy a SLR system. This is a fact of life, the larger the format, the more you can separate the plans of your image. For proof, see this large format picture by Pierre Herbert.



Definition: Medium Format wins at 24MP, but 36MP I'd give it to the DSLR

Definition is more or less how big the file is, or in practical terms, how large can you print before you can see pixels or dots. Little to do with how the image feels. On the digital file, it's simple you know how many pixels you have. You can print large with a D600: A2 for sure, but I've never tried bigger to be honest. With the MF, it all depends on the gear you use to develop or scan. I personally scan my negs with an Epson V700 and at 6400 DPI the definition is absolutely monstrous. It is however a royal pain to process, files are gigantic etc. It's a win for the MF Mamiya in my case, but a close one. 
If I compared against a D800, I'd give the D800 the win as it wouldn't be much more defined but it would be a lot more convenient to work with.

Bokeh: Medium Format wins

Bokeh on a MF system...there's not point in even comparing. I know it before testing. However, I have to say I am very very happy with the bokeh wide open at f1.2 on the 50mm lens. It is comparable to MF, see for yourselves:
D600 50mm 1.2 AIS @ 1.2
However, keep in mind that with a 80mm 1.8 for example, you'd get a soft even SLR-like bokeh that is nowhere close to that feel. What does this mean? It means that any portrait MF system will give you that on a large range of aperture, but to get it on a digital system is takes an exceptionally fast and expensive lens like the 50mm 1.2 AIS. Yet as we mentioned earlier on, at f1.2 the SLR sharpness drops. 

A similar shot, with the Mamiya RZ67. Bokeh is comparable indeed, but the area that is on focus stand out a lot more against the rest of the shot. The image is also more contrasted naturally, even prior to editing. It's even more striking on a large print.

Mamiya RZ67 II 110mm 2.8 @ 2.8

Colors: DSLR wins

Film tones are superb, dynamic range is superb but let's face it, post processing and development is difficult and leaves a lot less margin for editing than digital. With the DSLR you have control and a lot of option. Keep in mind that I am rather average at editing, and still I find the possibilities endless as opposed to film. In terms of results, it's not more pleasant than film, it's actually a little nicer on film thanks to dynamic range (next point), but artistic freedom digital gives you is priceless. 

With medium format film colors can look wonderful if you nail the exposure. If you don't, in particular with positive film, it will quickly go wrong. Then the result is, to say the least, random if you don't master your camera and the scanning / development process. 

Dynamic range and tones: tie.

Well I'm being inaccurate here: the camera itself as little to do with it, it's about the film and the sensor. 
  • For MF, it'll be film only (digital MF are not actually MF cameras). Velvia 50 is stunning an offer amazing dynamic range, then it depends on the film. It's usually pretty good.
  • For digital, this late 2013, I have to admit that sensors are getting very good, especially Nikon's and Fuji's (not Canon, sorry).

However, digital post processing allows to greatly compensate the lack of dynamic range. Doing it in a dark room is more of a pain. Since only the result matters, who wins? It's very hard to tell. With RAW files and the latest softwares, you can do miracles. I honestly couldn't pick a winner here. Digital is more flexible, film is superior from scratch but if you messed up exposure, you are screwed.

To illustrate my point, this is TriX film on a very old 35mm camera, same lens as on the D600 (50mm 1.2AIS). No processing whatsoever and very harsh light: notice how the details in the hair under the chin are still visible, as well and the area around the roofs about the head. Film can capture properly a larger range of brightness.

Black and White: Medium Format wins

See above, infinite gradient of tones on film, no need to master expensive softwares to produce a good B&W. Nothing to compare here. Also nicer noise, nice everything...
On the positive side for digital: Nik Software provides a good add on for Lightroom, Silver Efex Pro, to edit digital B&W. 

Mamiya RZ 67,  keep in mind that the left shot has been cropped significantly and still...wow. Only ambient light.

Low light: DSLR wins

Easy wins, modern sensors are simply amazing. Very clear images up until ISO 3200, very usable at ISO 6400 for documentary. It's impressive. Yet during a photo shoot you use proper light, and even a slow speeds, MF performs terrific. So from a strict technical stand point digital destroys film MF here, but it's useful for journalist, wildlife photographers only. For a crisp portrait, even in low light, you'd use ISO 400 film and a tripod, and it would be irrelevant.

Conclusion

I can't do with a DSLR what I can do with a MF system. So that flickr gentleman was wrong. But on the other hand... I can't do with a MF system what I can do with an SLR either.
If you are into editing, if you are a journalist or a wildlife photographer, get a DSLR, no doubt about it.
If you are into B&W, portraits in studio conditions, craftsmanship: get a MF system.
The best is of course to own both, in which case I recommend:
- A Pentax 67II Medium format system. I love the Mamiya but it's a cube. Literally. I mean, how do you handle a cube? I'd like to see the hands of whoever designed that!
- A Nikon D610 , which is at the actual price the best value for the money you can think about. It will get you 95% of what you get from D800 or D4 for a lot less money and a much lighter package.
- A D800 is you're rich. 

Anna @ home

ë ! ("yo" in cyrillic, yes I'm learning Russian...kinda...trying at least)

Shots of Anna with a Mamiya RZ67 pro II, 110mm @ F2.8. Color in pro 400H fuji, black and whites are with TriX low grain) and Neopan 400 pushed to 1600 (high grain). All scanned with an Epson V700.

Thanks to Anna.

             







Product review: Mamiya RZ67 pro II

Booya ! After the Canon Power Shot S90 / S95 review, time to go back to some hardcore gear an review an ol' classic yet still one of the finest machines around: the Mamiya RZ67, in it's proII version as it is one of the most recent (1995,  the 67D is the same but with less cabling to connect a digital back was introduced in 2004).


Who is this camera aiming at: 
Studio or photo shoot set up enthusiasts, aiming at ultimate picture quality, and I would say mostly portraits. It can do good at landscape but the widest available lens is a 50mm, wich correspond +/- to a 24mm on a 35mm full frame. I know there is a 18mm equivalent lens produced, but I've never seen one on the second hand market. So not the widest. A Mamiya 7 will be a better landscape camera, or a Pentax 67II, or a Fuji 680. An other reason why it's not for landscapes and street / candid shots : it's a tank. I mean, it's 6 pounds or heavy metal, the size of a brick. Once I shot around Brooklyn with it, carrying it on my shoulder...never again. And most people in the street think it's a camcorder !

Long Story short:
For what it's aiming at, studio portraits, I can hardly think of a better camera. It is considered as such by the profession. You can also adapt a digital back if you can afford it.

Image samples far below in the end.

Many use Hasselblads but I prefer the 6x7 format, it gives you a little more flexibility in framing than square, and mostly, you can just crop your 6x7 into a 6x6 if you want square. I also believe the 110mm f2.8 lens that comes with the Mamiya is exceptional.
Rolleiflex cameras are has good but you can't find them for less that $1500, when the Mamiya + the 110mm lens will be around for $900 in mint condition. FYI it's $4500 brand new (67D version, i.e digital back ready)... In line with that Mamiya used lenses are cheap.

Once again if you are talented, any premium MF film camera will satisfy you equally, differences will be a matter of personal taste, regarding ergonomics etc.

Presentation and main accessories:
The camera body itself is a nearly square metal cube of about 12x12 cm. Lens goes front (duh ! winning!), at the back goes a rotatif 120 film back. You can turn it by 90 degree to go from landscape to portrait, which turns out to be of the highest convenience ! Believe me you won't rotate the camera, it' must be on a tripod.

On top goes a classic waist level finder, in which the image is of course flipped horizontaly. It's very clear, superbly convenient for framing. You can replace it by a prismfinder that includes metering, but you loose clarity and brightness, as well as the ability to stand over the camera. I prefer the waist level finder, and I meter with....the superb meter of the Nikon F5 :p

Focusing can be done on the left and right side of the camera by 2 rings, but the right side ring has a scaled secondary ring for precise focusing.

All of this is rock solid, never jams. I took a sand storm with the camera, and it is still very much alive.

Flash hot shoe is on the left side.

Shutter can be adjusted by half EV steps when the RZI could only be adjusted by full EV steps.

Max shutter speed is 1/400sec.

Image quality:
Mostly related to the lens, but still this camera helps you get superb results. Focusing requires a little attention, and moving subjects...well forget about moving subjects.
However, the 6X7 format will give you huge negatives from which you can print very large (I bet it can take a 2X2 meter print easy, the most I did is a2 and it's superb). I tried the 110mm and 50mm lens, they are both superb and cheap is bought used ($300).
This camera does not get in the way of your images, very few things to set up (it's fully manual), if you have the elementary/academic photography skills, it'll be your best friend. Also it impresses models who have only been shot by people using a DX DSLR :p

Pros:
Ratio performance / price on the second hand market: you won't get better images (unless you go large format), and for a ridiculous price. Your rich showy friend with his 5DmkII who decided to ignore film photography will keep wondering why his shots look so boring next to yours :) For $800/900 dollars, you get a camera that if it was a car, would be an Aston Martin.
Also, cheap lenses.

I forgot ! you can adapt a polaroid back too !

Cons
Bulky. If it was a vehicule, it would be an Aston Martin in regards to performance indeed, but it would be an M1 Abrams battle tank in regards to design...

Pulling the RZ67  of your bag in the street would be like taking that out of your garage...

No AF, no built in metering = 0 versatility. It's a studio camera. You can't only have this one. It sucks, but a sports car can't also be a van, and a van can't have the advantages of a sports car. Pick your fights.

6x7 means amazing images, but it also means only 10 shots per roll. 220 films is now a relic of the past and very hard to find.

Recommendation:
If you want subtile super high def top quality studio or set up portraits or still life, then get one. This camera is a standard among pros. It delivers brilliantly. If you get one as your first non digital camera, you reach a different world that will make you somehow hate your digital camera (though having both is best).

You might want to also consider the Pentax 67II. I haven't tried it with its main portrait lens, but you wouldn't go wrong either. However if you include price in the equation, the Mamiya wins (notice the Pentax is not more portable, it's an different type of tank, yet it's a tank).

Don't go for it if you're into landscapes, or as a main camera. It's too niche.

For landscapes get the Mamiya 6 or 7 (highly portable), or the Fuji 680 (An other military piece...).

For a more portable system (still no AF and metering) and even bigger negative and a great lens, look at the FUJICA GW 690. But you can't change the lens, it's built in.

Photo samples:











Oldies: Joy @ Dublin

Some more old shots before I can scan all I have in boxes.

These I haven't put on www.RonanShotMe.com yet, so they are sort of exclusive.
Shot with a Mamiya RZ67 pro II, 110mm F2.8 lens, a thru a white umbrella (facing model). Metered with an F5 (the Nikon F5 meters really really well). Film is Kodak Tri-X 120.

Thanks to the model : Joy.




Mamiya RZ67 pro II, Trix, 110mmF2.8

Jagoda @ Dulbin



Mamiya RZ67 pro II, HP5, 110mm f2.8. The first image has been post processed for toning.

Joy


Recently I was please to shoot a lady call Joy, an Irish / Thai model. These are shot with a Mamiya RZ67 pro II, Tri-X, 110mm f2.8 lens